Bucs Dugout: FanPosts

Next Fixes Needed for the Bucs

zogger — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 17:39:44 -0000

OK, we had a terrifc draft/signings. We made trades at the deadlines to beef up our pitching and some position players. Where does that leave us now?

We still have holes at 1st, 2nd, and SS. LaRouche and Freddy aren't cutting it. LaRouche may just not be good while Freddy maybe hurt. Anyway, we don't have much depth in the minors at these positions.

Shelby Ford for 2B? Maybe, but we won't know for a few years.

At 1B, maybe Pearce if he can start hitting. Otherwise, we have a hole there too.

At SS, nobody even close to being major league ready. Bixler isn't the guy. Maybe some of the others we drafted this year might pan out, but nobody really jumps out as a sure thing. This is a hole.

3B is Alvarez's in a few years. Until then, LaRouche Jr. is in control Unless Walker starts hitting, he is not going anywhere. I'd say 3B is set for now.

Ih the outfiled we have alot of options. I think we are OK there.

At catcher, after Doumit (who is doing great!) we have nothing. Another hole we need to fill.

So holes at 1B and 2B right now. No depth at SS or C. That's 4 of the 8 positions. Neal and company need a few more drafts like they did this year to get these holes filled.

Don't get me wrong. I love what the new management has done. I think the magnItude of the task is becoming obvious.

New Pirates Top 10 Prospects

succos12 — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 13:44:49 -0000

Now that the prospect signing deadline and the trading deadline has past, I think it will be fun to project the top 10 prospects. Here is mine:

1. Pedro Alverez

2. Andrew McCutchen

3. Jose Tabata

4. Bryan Morris

5. Neil Walker

6. Daniel McCutchen

7. Jamie Romak

8. Brad Lincoln

9. Robbie Grossman

10. Shelby Ford

Others Receiving Votes: Jordy Mercer, Justin Wilson, Brian Friday, Daniel Moskos, Dave Davidson, Quinton Miller, Wesley Freeman

Lets see what you think. This is way more fun than usual.

Edit: I would have included ohlendorf, but I thought he had to many MLB IP. I see only has 47 IP, so he is eligible. I would have placed him 8th right in front of Lincoln, and knocking ford out of the top 10.

Draft and Follow

buckos2k — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:56:57 -0000

Does anyone know if any of the Pirates current selections are draft and follow elegible? It could be possible that some of the selections that were made this year have a chance of being signed and the Pirates could get an extended look by having the players return to school or enter junior college. I don't a great deal about draft and follow however from my understanding it allows the team retain the players' rights until a week before the next draft.

Thanks for reading my post.

Some Perspective. Maybe.

geeves — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:13:14 -0000

Decided to respond to DK's latest Q&A, since his comment seemed a bit silly. This is the letter I sent into him. Hoefupply I be not insane and rambling?

"It is difficult to label any franchise future-minded when it gives a 33-year-old first baseman platoon time at third with someone management was saying had a chance to be part of the future"

Normally, I would agree with you. However, you and I both know a few things here. First of all, it is definitely true that any new management team will eventually try to fill an entire organization with "their people" - from the best player in the majors to the 25th man on the roster in Hickory, and all the office positions to boot. Much can be said for proverbial clean slates, especially a long-failing team like ours.

The Pittsburgh situation is made different by the fact that the previous management filled all of the square and round holes at all of the various organizational levels with pegs that any reasonably educated baseball fan, let alone baseball employees and personnel, knew didn't really belong at that level.

I have followed this team much more closely over the last couple of years than at any other point - partly because I have become a much more educated fan. In the process of watching the team, I know that Jose Bautista was certainly, as you mentioned, miscast as an everyday player, because he simply cannot produce offensively to be considered a regular starter at any position, let alone third base, and is not defensively versatile enough to compensate.

Doug Mientkewicz wasn't brought to this team to play third base. He was brought in as a first baseman. However, the team also played him at third base and in right field, and obviously now feels that he is a more consistent - and versatile - option on offense and defense, while also having the perk of being a very passionate and vocal veteran teammate.

The fact that a 32 year old (Michaels), or a 34 year old (Mientkewicz), or a 35 year old (Chavez), or a 37 year old (Gomez), is situated on the current bench is not in any way a reflection on the new management's ability to be forward thinking, nor is that ability - or lack - reflected in a younger player not being given regular playing time over an older one.

This is simply management doing their best to fill in the cracks, the fringes of the 25 man roster, with the most versatile and inexpensive putty they can find, which just so happens - at the moment - to be low-priced, older free agents instead of any younger talent currently in the organization.

This move with Bautista is probably one that the team should have made sooner (though it was likely delayed by his homerun binge earlier this year) so that they could have him playing second base or center field and increasing his versatility, instead of running out a matt kata/josh wilson organizational filler platoon in Indy.

Josh Fogg? ... is this correct?

Deaner — Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:46:36 -0000

I have been watching tonight's game on FSN Ohio. The Reds tv announcers (George Grande and Chris Welsh) said that Josh Fogg leads all-time Pirates' starters in wins at PNC Park with 20 total. Is this correct!? ... Zach Duke and a few other pitchers are behind him with 18 wins.

If so, I guess it is just another brutal illustration of how bad the Pirates have been since they moved into PNC Park.

Daniel McCutchen Unimpressive, Yet Somewhat Encouraging

azibuck — Tue, 12 Aug 2008 03:39:30 -0000

Dan McCutchen can pitch a little bit. His fastball sits at 91-93. He threw 30 pitches those speeds, and 15 of those were 92. He threw 93mph on his 99th pitch before striking out Brock Peterson with an excellent change. He topped out at 95 (once) and threw 94 a handful of times. He got 16 swings and misses and most were on his low-80s change. He also threw a high-70s breaking ball. He threw strikes. I'm not disappointed Dan McCutchen is in the Pirates system. I don't think he's long for AAA, which is good because he's 25. It's not that I think he'll be super good, just that the talent in the org won't hold him back and he has the stuff to get a shot. I think he just needs some more refinement, probably with his fastball location.

He gave up back to back HR to two lefties, Howie Clark and minor league vet Garrett Jones. Fastball to Clark, breaking ball to Jones who destroyed it. After a mound visit, he retired the next three batters. He reminded me of pretty much all the Twins pitchers not named Liriano that have come through Rochester the last few years, Scott Baker in particular. Low 90's fastball, good stuff but nothing that really wows you. Baker got to the majors faster but has been a league average starter most of the time.

Kind of like his stuff and performance, I don't have much else *concrete* to report. He looked good, not great. The change looks like a plus pitch as 13 of the 16 swinging strikes were on the change.

Note: I just went and read WTM's D. McCutchen page for the first time, which basically says more concisely what I just wrote, but I'll leave it anyway. I wanted to know if McCutchen was throwing a curve or slider. Often, depending on where I sit, I'm not sure whether a guy is throwing a curve, slider or change, especially if their breaking stuff doesn't have severe downward movement. But sitting close today I was able to clearly make out the pitch types. Unfortunately, I noticed something else and I don't think it's good, but maybe someone can comment on it.

First of all, on his very first pitch, the guy I thought of was Wade Miller--throwing with a lot of arm, and across his body at that. I predicted surgery for Miller so much it became a running joke between a friend and me. I was finally right, but Miller had a few excellent years before it happened. We can only hope the same, at least, for McCutchen.

Second, I don't know if I can call it a "tell", but I was able to tell what he threw by watching his delivery. The change and fastball looked the same, though I could tell he slowed his arm down a bit. To a batter it may have been imperceptible as I was viewing from behind the dugout and it just may have been more obvious from that angle. But it looked to me like he really cut off his delivery on the curve. He doesn't seem to finish the pitch and stops his arm quickly. I've read that this is very bad for the arm.

This is a comment from another thread, but my thought on Andrew McCutchen is that he's underwhelming. He had a pretty bad game today, 1-4 with a walk. But the outs were two strikeouts and a GIDP with the game on the line. He smoked one ball in the three games I saw. A bullet off the wall in LF, but it bounced right to the LF and Cutch was thrown out at 2nd. He otherwise didn’t hit the ball with authority and had plenty of swings and misses. Six in the three games I saw, and he wasn’t facing any pitcher of note. Even his fielding wasn’t great. Twice he broke back on balls that landed in front of him, though both were day games for what that’s worth, though the sun never seemed to bother him.

Gorzelanny Fans Ten Red Wings Again! Otherwise Unimpressive (Only Half-joking)

azibuck — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 02:30:06 -0000

For perspective on that headline, you might want to read at least some of t his diary I wrote in June of 2006 when Tom Gorzelanny also struck 10 Red Wings.

Basically, he threw harder then, and harder more often. I found my game chart from that 2006 game, and first of all, he threw 94mph twice even though in that diary I wrote that he topped out at 93. But here are some contrasts, and you can make up your own mind about their meaning:

Pitches thrown
August 10, 2008 -- 90
June 14, 2006 -- 100

Pitches 90mph or faster:
2008 -- 9, topping out at 92. 90 total pitches thrown.
2006 -- 42, topping out at 94. 100 total pitches thrown.

Pitches 87-89mph
2008 -- 33
2006 -- 17

Pitches 84-86*
2008 -- 16
2006 -- 5

*Today, those were pretty clearly fastballs, 10 coming in the first two innings. In 2006, 3 of the 5 were breaking balls. In 2006 he sat at 91-92 and his offspeed stuff was 78-79, he was consistently in these ranges. In 2008, he was 88-89 with his fastball, 80-82 with his breaking stuff. In addition to the lost velocity, I don't think the narrowing of the gap between his pitch types is a good thing at all.

Still, the raw numbers would seem to say he was roughly equally dominant in both games. Similar to the defense discussions going on about Nate McLouth, I have to rely on my eyes. The gun could have been off either night. Or it could be a different gun entirely. In the interest of full disclosure, it only intermittently gave readings in the 8th inning. But I believe in velocity and from my experience I trust the Frontier Field gun.

All I can say is he wowed me in 2006. He just pounded fastballs at 92, 92, 92. Today, 88, 89, and occasionally mixing in some Morrisesque 85's. Maybe it was the expectation of (hopefully) seeing 2006 form again makes this just slightly disappointing. Maybe it was the knowledge that he struggled this year, and that Tracy misused him (I hate the term abuse in this context, but feel free to use it), that did bias me as I kept looking at the pitch speeds. Maybe it was just watching the game because there's also this:

2008 -- 5 hits, 4 OF flyouts.
2006 -- 2 hits, 2 outfield flyouts, one I wrote as "soft liner".

So all I can say is it felt different, and not in a good way. The Pirates can use a guy who can pitch, but enthusiasm from last year's 14-win season probably ought to be tempered, at least for rest of this season. I doubt he can rediscover top form this year. Maybe with another offseason of rest.

I don't want to waste a lot of time on Marino Salas. He was OK. Strangely, he threw 93 warming up, but never topped 91 in the game. And it wasn't a fluke. When he entered the game and warmed up the first time, I was jacked. He looked angry and he was bringing it. Then a batter came up and he really looked like he backed off. It was weird. After that warmup I was ready to see 95+ and I saw 91. I should know this about Pirates bullpen guys -- when I expect more, I should expect less.

Finally, the player that has really stood out so far for me is Mr. Excitement. I noted the other night his miscommunication with Andrew McCutchen (though Cutch was the CF). He was also picked off that game, badly. He was doubled off 2B Saturday night. Today he lost a ball in the sun, I think. It was a high fly that he was camped under and didn't even touch. Strangely, this is marked as the 3-run "double on a fly ball to CF Andrew McCutchen" in the game recap. Trust me, McCutchen was not involved at all in the play, but he picked the ball up so that's how it was scored. And on a later adventure that Morgan caught, a guy a few rows back said, "That left fielder doesn't know what the hell he's doing." Day game tomorrow too, Mr. E.

Secret Code

geeves — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 15:48:06 -0000

Wonder what John Russell thinks of Pearce's struggles at the plate? (emphasis mine of course):

"He needs to start making adjustments,'' Russell said. "He's always been a very aggressive hitter. [Opposing pitchers are] not giving him a lot of great pitches to hit and he needs to make adjustments to lay off those pitches.

"We've talked to him about that. It's a process. He's a very aggressive hitter. He loves to swing the bat. Sometimes that will hurt you more than help you because you try to do too much.

"He's got to start learning how to manage the strike zone, manage his at-bats, be a little more in control of what he's trying to do.

"You don't want to take away the aggressiveness. You want him to be aggressive but under control - put himself in a better position to be aggressive.

"We're all about aggressiveness. We're all about swinging the bat with a purpose. But it's more a situation of being in a position to be aggressive - to be in a position to see the ball well and put an aggressive swing on it. Right now he's not quite there. He's taking aggressive swings at too many pitches.''

I guess he want's Pearce to channel his passiveness? Not sure. I don't speak manager-ese.

Ohlendorf Throws 99mph; Otherwise Unimpressive

azibuck — Sat, 09 Aug 2008 06:37:55 -0000

I watched Ross Ohlendorf lose to the Rochester Red Wings tonight and left intrigued, and hopeful, but not really impressed. He threw serious gas, and wasn't wild, but he was pretty hittable. It's esoteric and unprovable, but he looked, well, like he didn't know how to pitch. Thrower, not a pitcher, that kind of look.

He threw 22 pitches in the first inning, 11 strikes, 11 balls, only one swing and miss. But he was just getting warmed up. I missed two of the velocities in the inning, but watching the pitches I can confidently say he didn't throw anything offspeed until the 14th pitch of the inning. All the fastballs wouldn't be so bad, except he wasn't commanding it, and later showed a pretty good breaking ball, getting a bunch of swings and misses in the 2nd and 3rd innings. His fastball went from 92 (once) to 96mph. He gave up a bouncer up the middle for a single, and a sharp grounder to LF for a single. After picking the runner off 2B, Garrett Jones smoked Ohly's first pitch, a 96mph fastball, toward first. It broke Mike Cuddyer's foot.

In the 2nd inning Ohlendorf started really letting it fly, but that might not have been so smart. Again I had him down for only two offspeed pitches out of 21 total. His fastball went from 93 (once) to 99. But check this sequence to 22 year-old Trevor Plouffe, the Twins' 1st round pick in 2004:

98 (ball), 96 (strike), 99 (strike), 97 (ball), 94 (foul), 96--double to the gap. It looked to me like Plouffe had him timed. He was just behind the next to last pitch, and was pretty clearly sitting dead red on the last, Plouffe drilled it.

Ohlendorf gave up a single because Nyjer Morgan and Andrew McCutchen didn't communicate and let the ball drop between them when it looked like either could have taken it. He ended the inning by (finally) throwing an 84mph curve to get Jason Pridie swinging.

Ohlendorf retired the side in the 3rd on 13 pitches, 10 strikes. Like a message from the baseball Gods, six of the pitches were offspeed, and three of those were swings and misses. One was a called strike, and the other two were put in play for a soft fly to left and a routine 4-3 grounder. He dialed the fastball back down to 93-94 most of the inning, only once hitting 96.

In the 4th, he gave up two hits and got two strikeouts. But again, it was his offspeed stuff that got batters out. I had him for seven offspeed pitches in the inning, four of them called strikes, and another one swinging for a K. He clearly can throw it for strikes. Again, the fastball sat at 93-94 most of the inning, once hitting 97. But again Plouffe doubled, and again it was drilled like he knew it was coming. This one was only 93 so he had no trouble catching up to it. And why wouldn't he? Plouffe saw 9 pitches his first two AB, all fastballs.

Ohlendorf appeared to be tiring in the 5th, with his fastball sitting 91-92, and he threw mostly breaking balls. He got into trouble with two singles to lead off the inning, but again was bailed out by bad baseball by the Wings. By the way, one single was possibly because Mr. Excitement slipped to the ground and had to then let the ball drop in front of him. It was a liner, but he lost all chance to make the play by spinning his wing tips out of the blocks. With runners on 1st and 2nd, Serge Santos bunted the first pitch into the air in foul ground on the 3rd base side. Neil Walker made a spectacular lay-out dive for the putout (seriously great play), and he easily doubled the runner off first who had gone all the way to second for some reason. Garrett Jones then saw all offspeed--four pitches--but finally figured that out and lined a hard single to right to score a run. He inexplicably went to 2nd on the throw, which was low and right to the cutoff man who wasn't more than 15 feet from first base. A brief rundown and suddenly Ohlendorf was out of the inning in 11 pitches. He really only retired only one batter in the inning.

In the 6th, I... well, look, I was at the game with two eight year-olds and a five year-old, and I needed a beer. And the only decent beer at Frontier Field is Brooklyn Pennant, but you can only get it at the bar at the end of the LF stands. We started out completely opposite that and I was lucky to see the inning as I strolled the walkway between the upper and lower stands on the way back to the RF knoll. He was still throwing 93-94, and the inning ended with a drive to RCF that Matt Kata barely ran down at the wall, hit by, guess who? Trevor Plouffe.

Evan Meek looked pretty good (but...) in the 7th and 8th. 23 of 31 pitches were strikes, and his fastball sat mostly at 93-95 in the 7th, and 94-96 in the 8th, once also hitting 99. But that was the weird thing about Meek when he was with Pittsburgh -- his fastball varied in speed a lot. It would be nice if I thought he was doing it intentionally, or was mixing in a cutter, but the complete inconsistency in velocity makes me think he's just got mechanical issues still to work out. Even here, he threw 89, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, and 99. Nine different speeds in 25 fastballs. And it wasn't something where he was just building up the velocity as he hit six of those speeds in his last 11 pitches. He threw well though, he was behind only one batter and threw a pretty good breaking ball in the 78-82mph range. Five of six offspeed pitches were strikes. The only hit he gave up was a single that Garrett Jones was very late on but grounded it just fair inside 3B.

I'm hoping to go to at least two of the final three games, so I'm reluctant to say any more than this about McCutchen -- he didn't see more than a couple fastballs, and looked bad swinging over breaking balls, twice for Ks.

Walker didn't look lost or anything, but didn't seem very confident either. Again, I want to get a few more looks.

Edit: I can't believe I forgot to note the Mr. Excitement hit the first pitch of the game just over the rail near the foul pole in RF for his first HR at any level this year. In the Olympic spirit I think it shouldn't count because it was wind-aided.

How much damage did Tracy really do?

Illinois Pirate Fan — Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:32:03 -0000

Tracy insisted on playing Duffy over McClouth not once but twice despite his holdout. After watching McClouth play this year it is painfully obvious that he was the superior player. Every ball he hits is hard and I truly believe he is the best hitter on the team and a future all-star, again.

Tracy insisted on playing Paulino and managed to allow him to self-destruct. What was once a .300 hitter is now struggling in the minors. What did Tracy do or not do to contribute to his demise?

Tracy/Colburn insisted on altering Duke's motion leading to the destruction of a promising career. This pitcher has to have had something going for him to excell at every level (including MLB for a time). Yet, something prodded Tracy to want to change his delivery...why?

I hesitate to blame Tracy for the acquisition of Morris but I have to believe that he had some input into his signing and would love to know the extent of it.

In summary, I believe this man may have been a more destructive force than Littlefield in the long run and it is obvious that the combination of the two of them has set our team back at least 5 years if not more. Can we shoot Tracy and then send him to the Russian Front?

A Sox fan's look at Moss and Hansen

Allen Chace — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:27:44 -0000

Don't know how welcome this will be; I've been watching Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen for the last couple/few years. They've definitely formed some impressions on me, and maybe these would be helpful to you in looking at your new players.

Best of luck to Moss and the Pirates. However, it's a little sad to see him in another uniform.

Brandon Moss. SoxProspects Profile.

Defense:

Moss is a corner OF, as you well know, has always played a quality LF and RF when he's been up with the Sox. His arm is good enough to make runners think twice about going 1st to 3rd and going home on a shallow fly to RF or LF, though he's probably not going to draw Vlad Guerrero comparisons. He can play either corner well, in my opinion, and if Steven Pearce (a 1B-convert) is going to be out there with him, Moss should probably be given the harder corner in left field and prove himself capable.

Offense:

Moss's ceiling never seemed that high to me. His upside is probably Trot Nixon circa 2001-2004 (OPS+: 128, 110, 149, 123). Nixon was never really given a chance to figure LHPs out at the ML-level, which is a choice the Pirates will have to make. Platoon him, and he'll probably hit RHPs well enough to start 130-140 games a year with solid production. Give him a chance against LHPs, and maybe he'll figure them out to the point of not being just a platoon OF. Despite my first sentence, he could hang around as a starting OF for the Pirates if given the opportunity. He has the tools to do so, even if he'll probably never be an All-Star.

Unfulfilled potential, thy name is Craig.

Craig Hansen. SoxProspects Profile.

Bad News First:

Hansen seems like the classic million dollar arm w/ ten cent head. He's never met a PA he couldn't turn into a 3-0 or 3-1 count, and he's prone to walks (4.91 per 9). The Sox have tried to straighten out his mechanics (which have been described as an injury waiting to happen), and in so doing straightened out his fastball and taken some bite off his slider. He was encouraged to resume his normal pitching motions recently. I've not often seen him throw his slider for strikes; it's a chase pitch for him most of the time, so his fastball command needs to be very good in order to be effective. I struggle to envision a scenario in which he's consistent enough to enjoy prolonged success in MLB.

The Good News:

The slider is a bonefide out-pitch when everything's going well. Consistency and command for Hansen could lead to him being a top 5 closer in the majors. He's flashed some of that potential with the Sox, and there are several outings in which he seemed to be the Sox best RP aside from Papelbon. He's probably the part the Sox sent to the Pirates that could be most missed, as his impact as a potential shutdown RP could be huge.

In Closing:

These two could be very useful cogs on the Pirates ML roster for the next several seasons. My feeling is that Moss will succeed, and Hansen will either become your best RP or be close to out of the game in the next couple seasons. I'll be rooting hard for both to succeed either way.

Could someone please explain to me...

Illinois Pirate Fan — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 02:18:49 -0000

Why the team hasn't given McCutchen a chance to play in the OF and move Pearce to 1B, his naturala position, while LaRoche is hurt? Nothing gets resolved for our future by playing Mietowciz at 1B. Let's bring up our future and let him have a chance to play. Mientky isn't part of our future and shouldn't be playing much. We can finish last with or without him. It's more important to start planning for our future now! I don't understand Russell's thinking on this one. Same thing for Rivas. Let's showcase Bautista at another position and see if we can improve his trade value. Same logic for Rivas...we c an finish last with or without him. Sit him down for the rest of the year and play our future. Geesh!

Where To Now?

geeves — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 03:38:25 -0000

Since you can't share an idea without someone snatching it instead of collaborating, it was time for a fanpost...

So the Pirates made some deadline dealing. They got rid of their franchise player, their career-year veteran, and their stud lefty specialist, and brought in eight total prospects - four for the immediate major league roster, two for AAA, and two others well down the food chain. However, not all of the players we expected to be dealt wound up leaving, although their services arent any less in need by the teams that are still in contention this year. Here's what I figure might happen between now and the beginning of next year.

First off, a recap of the Waiver Trade Deadline (Aug 31) rules just in case any of these guys actually goes.

1) Any player who is placed on waivers and claimed by another team, the team that put him there can:

a) let that team have him for a waiver fee (and then the team that got him pays his remaining salary)

b) agree to a trade with the team that claimed him

c) pull that player back off waivers. this can be done one time. if a player is placed on waivers a second time before September 1st, he can't be pulled back

2) If one team claims the player, the waiving team deals with only that team. If multiple teams claim a player, the team with the worst record gets priority, and a team in the same league gets priority.

Obviously, the worse teams in the league (Cleveland, Seattle, Washington) are the least likely to try and claim any of these guys. Except maybe Ed Wade.

John Grabow - He was being talked about as the fallback plan if the Pirates were somehow unable to find a home for Marte. He hasn't been dealt yet, but he could still be extremely useful to a team looking to shore up their bullpen for the stretch run. I had heard a couple mumblings of his heading to Los Angeles (either one). I doubt that he would fall all the way to the Angels,, but I wouldn't be surprised if he wound up going to the Dodgers straight-up for someone like Cory Wade, Scott Elbert, or Travis Schlichtling .

Jack Wilson - As has been discussed ad nauseum by most of us, the Dodgers need a shortstop (since Nomar is back on the DL, Furcal is still hurt, and Berroa and Maza combined can't hit it if it isn't on a tee). I wouldn't be surprised if Jack wound up packaged together with Grabow and the MacDonald and Hu concept weren't reignited, or heck, even Matt Kemp all over again.

I should mention here that this is based on the fact that all of the teams ahead of Los Angeles in waiver priority are out of contention, so they are trade candidate numero uno. Again, unless Ed Wade continues to be, well, Ed Wade. (Even if they pass Arizona, the Dbacks are unlikely to try claiming either of these two)

Ronny Paulino - We all know that we have no use for the boy, since Ryan Doumit is playing better and there are a dozen Raul Chavez' in the world. However, he is sure hitting the ball well since he got demoted, and if he can show that he's no longer injured, the Marlins could sure use a catcher, and perhaps we could sell them on Ronny's career .318 AVG and .781 OPS in September. What does it mean for us? Perhaps we could steal someone like John Raynor, Chris Coghlan, or Chris Mobley.

It would be nice to write about Chris Duffy here. Perhaps we could have talked some team into believing that he's due for a Ryan Ludwick (minus the homers of course) type resurgence next year. Also, maybe our bench hitters might be of interest to a contender, someone like Malphabet, CGz, or 0-3vas for a depth prospect or two.

But this is just an idea, a jumping off point, so let me know what you guys think.

Andy LaRoche Breakdown

Baseball Handyman — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 01:46:03 -0000

A few of my buddies and I had a running discussion about how good LaRoche will be and I wrote something about yesterday. Figured some of you might be interested!

Earlier today, the Pittsburgh Pirates acquired Andy LaRoche as the key piece in the three way trade in which Jason Bay and Manny Ramirez changed addresses. Along with LaRoche, the Pirates received three other prospects, but none whose status approaches that of the former Dodger farmhand. Will LaRoche live up to his billing as a top prospect and power hitting third baseman? Or will his injury history catch up to him and keep him from reaching his potential?

LaRoche is a former 39th round pick by the Los Angeles Dodgers in the 2003 draft, LaRoche began hitting from day one and hasn't stopped yet. He has impressed at every level and likely would have been an everyday player a year or two ago had untimely injuries not robbed him of opportunities.

Entering 2008, LaRoche held an APR of #20 overall and was the consensus #2 prospect in the Dodgers organization making the question of whether LaRoche can play or not kind of odd. However, LaRoche's injuries, the Dodgers inability to find him consistent playing time, and the Casey Blake trade a few days before the trade deadline did a number on LaRoche's prospect status..

Let's take a look at his numbers in the minor leagues minus his age 19 season and the nineteen total at bats he registered after signing;

Age 20 - .259/.326/.479 between A- and A+
Age 21 - .305/.374/.553 between A+ and AA
Age 22 - .315/.410/.514 between AA and AAA
Age 23 - .309/.399/.589 in AAA (265 AB because of injury)
Age 24 - .297/.445/.428 between AA and AAA

His major league totals are .217/.348/316 in 152 AB during the 2007 and 2008 seasons.

In looking at his minor league statistics by year, I noticed he had three seasons in which he split time between two leagues earning promotions at some point during the season. In two of those seasons, he posted gaudy numbers at the lower level and declined sharply after being promoted only to dominate the league he struggled in the following year. While it highlighted LaRoche's ability to make adjustments, it might have inflated his prospect status a bit early on making him seem like a potential 35 home run hitter annually instead of the 25 home run pop I think he will end up having.

LaRoche's AAA performance also points to a potential 25 home run player. in 590 AAA at bats over parts of three seasons, he posted an overall line of .310 33 HR 36 2B 125 R 111 RBI and a 88/101 K/BB ratio. Obviously, these are huge numbers, but spread out over 167 games which is just over 1 1/3 full AAA seasons. What sticks out is that the K/BB ratio is extremely impressive, but his almost having as many home runs as doubles doesn't seem to leave much more room for power growth.

Many fantasy owners have been waiting with baited breath to see what LaRoche can do with consistent playing time and now is his chance. However, I worry that his torn thumb ligament from spring training will affect his power for the rest of the 2008 season since his slugging percentage in the minor leagues was significantly lower than in 2007. From a fantasy perspective, this might afford an astute manager a great opportunity to pick up LaRoche in the offseason for less than half of his pre-2008 value.

As for 2009 and beyond, health will continue to play a major role in his achieving major league success but I can envision LaRoche as a .285/.385/.465 player who ends up making a couple of all star teams before all is said and done. Not exactly the MVP type performances some in the baseball world envisioned, but still good for top 5 among NL third basemen. Remember, however, that these projections are assuming he remains injury free for a period of time which is certainly no guarantee given his history.

Breaking Down the Pirates Bounty

Baseball Handyman — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 01:42:16 -0000

I'm pretty impressed with what the Pirates received through trades the past couple of weeks. i wrote about it on my blog and thought some of you might be interested in reading the piece.

Is the world coming to an end? It must be since I find myself writing a piece about the Pittsburgh Pirates making savvy deadline moves and acquiring quite a bit of talent at the trade deadline for Xavier Nady, Jason Bay and Damaso Marte; Three players who were not going to be around when the Pirates become competitive again.

All in all, the Pirates netted seven prospects inluding;

Craig Hansen, RP - Former 2005 1st round pick and supposed Boston Red Sox closer of the future pre-Papelbon. Hansen possesses a mid 90's fastball and a sometimes plus slider. However, he has been ineffective more often than not and a change of scenery should do him a great deal of good.

Andy LaRoche, 3B - Discussed in my previous blog entry, LaRoche held an APR of #20 overall entering the season and was the Los Angeles Dodgers consensus #2 prospect. A torn thumb ligament in spring training cost him his opportunity to be the Dodgers opening day third baseman and the Casey Blake trade signaled that his Dodgers days were numbered. With a fresh start, he can become a top 5 player at the position in the NL.

Jeff Karstens, P - Karstens has the least upside of any of the players received in this deal. At best, he's a back of the rotation/long reliever type who should eat innings at the major league level and projects as no worse that what the Pirates are currently sending to the mound most days.

Daniel McCutchen, P - Another back of the rotation/long reliever possibility, McCutchen entered 2008 and Baseball America's #14 Yankees prospect. In 300 career minor league innings his ERA sits an impressive 2.79 with a WHIP of 1.09. He has been old for his level at just about every stop leaving his numbers a bit deceiving.

Bryan Morris, SP - Another former first round pick, Morris has recovered nicely from Tommy John surgery and has an ERA of 3.20 while averaging almost a strikeout per inning. The pitcher with the most projection of the lot, his mid 90's fastball seems to be back and he could take off as early as next season.

Brandon Moss, OF - Moss impressed the Red Sox faithful by posting a .295/.337/.462 line bouncing between AAA and the big club. He doesn't have much projection, but a few of his 41 doubles in 2007 have turned into home runs at the AAA level as he has averaged about a home run every twenty at bats in 2008 compared to one every thirty at bats during the 2007 campaign. strikeouts are a concern however and could keep him from eclipsing seasons averages of .260-.270 with 15-18 home runs. With improved plate discipline, I can see him as a .270-.280 hitter with a few seasons approaching 25 long balls.

Jose Tabata, OF - With an overall APR of 35.25 and a New York Yankees APR of 3 on prospect lists entering 2008, Tabata had taken a slight hit from the previous years rankings. Since then, his prospect ranking has tanked between injuries, lack of production, and run ins with the Yankees organization. Desperately needing a fresh start, he will still only be 20 at the start of next season. With plenty of time to develop, he still has the tools to become a star.

In reviewing the names above, I can comfortably say that at least five of the seven players were dealt for much less than they would have been a season or two ago. While some would say that the return for arguably the Pirates three most valuable trade pieces wasn't impressive, I would argue that buying low and acquiring a greater number of prospects than they might have otherwise is a great strategy to employ for an organization with a thin minor league system and in a position to take chances.

Additionally, both Bay and Nady held significantly less value at this time last season making the Pirates cashing in their chips at the right time that much more impressive. See for yourself;

Xavier Nady

.278/.330/.476 in 2007

.328/.385/.535 in 2008

Jason Bay

.247/.327/.418 in 2007

.282/.375/.519 in 2008

Give Neil Huntington a ton of credit for following up a solid 2008 draft with the addition of two, pre-season top 40 prospects and two more former 1st round picks. Adding players with pedigree is never a bad thing. While the three other players involved will never be stars, they should help to successfully bridge the gap between the current and future pirates and allow players like their top prospects to develop without having to be rushed.

Another trade

Raggsy — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 11:50:51 -0000

Well the Pirates are really at it again. Trading the team anchor away in Bay. Every year management tells the fans that they are building the system to compete well we have been hearing that for 16 years. I think its time that management throw the fans some type of a bone. They say that they will not be happy being a .500 team well I think they should at least try to achieve that again give us something to try and hang on for another year give us hope for the future, every year I get P***ed off and say I am dumping the Pirates but I cant do that I am a Pirate fan I only wish there was something to cheer for........well MAYBE next year. Like the old saying goes we'll get'um next year only next year never comes

To the Whining Hordes of Yinzr Nation

fugimaster24 — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 06:32:00 -0000

This is for all those uninformed, casual baseball fans who are livid that the Pirates would do such an awful thing as "Rebuild" or "Blow up the Nucleus".

You sir, are the same, dead beat, typical yinzer, who complains, whines, and moans, and says you'll never root for (Penguins, Steelers, Pirates) again because they insult you and steal your hard earned cash. You call the talk shows when you should be working on I-79, to cry your gator tears to Guy Junker about what an awful deal the Pirates just made.

You probably threw a fit when Kasperitis, Jagr, Straka, Lang, etc., packed their bags because the Pens were unwilling to keep them over money. You probably weren't even there in the Arena Sids rookie year when only 8000 people showed up for the games, and the crowds were filled mostly with HS and college kids trying to get out of the cold. Heck, you were probably ticked that the team was being led by Crosby and a bunch of "prospects" like Ryan Malone and Max Talbot.

But, I bet you have your blue Crosby jersey hanging above your TV set now. Its signed,and sits next to your MAF flag. You waited for 5 hours at the Mall at Robinson for the autograph, but it makes your latest girlfriend think you're hot, and thats EXACTLY the kind of thing a REAL Pittsburgher should base a relationship on. You tell everyone you see what a die hard you are, and you hate Marian Hossa with a passion. You've got 1000 novelty Pens T-shirts to go with your army of "Stiller" ones.

And guess what? You're an insult to Pittsburgh sports. Your ignorance exceeds only your short-sightedness, and your lack of loyalty probably reflects your personality in everyday life.

When the Bucs DO succeed, and are in a pennant race, and guys like Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris are leading us through it, don't dare set foot in PNC Park if you have any sense of decency. Leave the tickets to the people who have lived and died with this team through the winning AND the 15 emotionally crippling years of losing.

But who am I kidding. You'll probably be right there, clutching your Iron City, wearing your shirt that says "Super LaRoche Bros.", which has Andy and Adam dressed like Mario and Luigi. You got it for 5 bucks on the Clemente Bridge from the SAME VENDOR you got your green protest shirt from 5 years earlier.

Just know that today was truly the beginning of a "New Pirate Generation" and if you're not on board now, don't pretend to be years down the road...

"Take me out to where the Pirates play

Catch the sights, cheer the plays, feel the glory of yesterday

Centerfield, grand slams, fans and Cracker Jack

Crowd cheers, I don't care if I ever get back

I listen to the game with my radio on

Clap along to the rhythm of a Bucco song

Two aboard, full count with nobody out

Stomp your feet, line drive everybody shout

Root, root, root for our home team

A new Pirate generation everybody shout, "Let's Go Bucs!"

With every slide there'll be Pittsburgh pride

At the ol' ball game everybody shout, Let's Go Bucs!

Cross the bridge, through the gate to the field of green

Young and old stories told from your childhood dream

Pops, Wagner, Traynor, Maz, and heroes yet to be named

Great catch, clutch hits like Clemente played

I listen to the game with my radio on

Clap along to the rhythm of a Bucco song

Two aboard, full count with nobody out

Stomp your feet, line drive everybody shout

Root, root, root for our home team

A new Pirate generation everybody shout, "Let's Go Bucs!"

Let it ring baby. Get in, or get out.

Good Day

P.S. You'll burn Jason Bay in effigy when we play the Sox in the Series, because a REAL Pittsburgh athlete wouldn't have gotten traded. They didn't trade Bradshaw did they?

I said good day.

Blowing up the nucleus AGAIN!!!! ARGHH!!!

bryan2008 — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:30:56 -0000

Another proven player traded away... Do we keep ANYBODY?!?!?!

EVERY YEAR we trade away someone decent for infamous "prospects" who do one of the following:

A. They never pan out to Pirate ownership & deluded fan potential.

B. They are quickly traded away themselves as they develop to a "contender" for more "prospects," thereby repeating the cycle.

This garbage reinforces my theory that Pirate fans that spend their $$$ on merchandise & tickets are suckers. The Twins compete, the Marlins compete, the Rays compete, the Rockies compete. WE are the ONLY team that CAN'T FIGURE THIS OUT?!?! Who has been in charge of this team since 1992??? Col. Klink? Sgt. SCHULTZ?!?!

Minor League Notes -- torturing myself

azibuck — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:26:06 -0000

I like to keep track of "what could have been." It's unhealthy. I look back at the life I've lived much more than how I want to live the rest of it. Anyway, so it is with baseball. I follow guys the PBC traded away, and now I can also follow guys we could have traded for. It seems pretty certain that we could have had Phil Coke and George Kontos instead of Karstens (vomit) and McCutchen.

This post is obviously ill-timed and will probably be ignored, but just because we made a good trade doesn't mean everything else in the world stopped.

George Kontos 1-hit (our crappy) Altoona Curve tonight. He fanned 13 and walked only one.

I'm one of the few that thought Coke was interesting, and I'll slap a quarter down right now and bet he's in NY this year. Small sample but since moving to the bullpen he's given up 1 hit in two appearances and whiffed 3 in 3 innings.

Bryan Bullington is still giving up runs, but in Buffalo he's struck out 20 and walked only 2 in 16 innings. In two relief appearances covering 7 innings he's struck out 10 and walked 1. He may never amount to anything, but I still don't understand why we didn't exhaust all possibilities with him.

And Todd Redmond.

Neal Earns his Chops

dtoddwin — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:38:53 -0000

It's been been an interesting ten months to be a Pirate fan, particularly on this site that Charlie has done such a great job in updating, maintaining and using to educate so many of us.

When Neal Huntington was hired last year there were a myriad of opinions as to whether we hired the best man for the job. Huntington's resume appeared a bit lacking in that he had seemingly moved down in his most recent position with Cleveland. He was young, but many of the best in the game were even younger when hired, and he came from an organization that has generally thrived under the leadership of Mark Shipiro. My only argument on his behalf at the time was that we give the man a little time before we throw him under the bus with his predecessors (who so richly deserved it).

The organization had a quiet off-season with virtually no signings of note and certainly no trades above the radar. I won't go through the many moves that have taken place since March. If you are viewing this site you are probably aware of everyone of them. But, NH and Frank Coonolly had a plan that they outlined and they stuck to it. And today I think we have seen the first steps come to fruition. I would go so far as to say this month is a seminal month in the past 15 years of the organization.

NH stuck to his view that many in the organization had underperformed in the past year and deserved an opportunity to be given another chance. Many people thought the idea of giving Xavier Nady the right field job was folly. Steve Pearce had earned the opportunity and Nady was no part of the future. I was leading the call to dump Bay for a bag of balls, thinking last year was the beginning of a precipitous decline.

Needless to say the organization's decision to stick with them has now paid off in spades. In return for a year and two months of Nady and Bay and two months of Marte and two potential sandwich picks, the Pirates have received eight young players of varying talent and projectability.

Being firmly in the camp of defending the trade with the Yankees when all the talking heads feel we got fleeced, I will restrain my enthusiasm in endorsing the Bay deal. (How did NH keep Grabow out of the deal with the Red Sox desperate for left-handed relief help.? Another great move.) The reality is these trades won't be properly evaluated for two or three years if not longer. The Yankees got the two best players in the Nady deal. Nobody can argue that. But the Yankees' objective are different than the Pirates'. The Yanks can play for this year every year. We can't.

There is no question that NH got a haul for Nady, Bay and Marte. Were they the best deals possible? Who knows. Would the Bucs have gotten anything close to that in the off-season? Well, if they had gotten just LaRoche and Tabata I would have been surprised. Combined with the draft, and the hopeful signings of the top two picks in the next two weeks, the new management team has stuck to the plan. They have taken risks, acquiring Jose Tabata and drafting Tanner Scheppers, and they have gotten big returns for Nady and Bay. We can debate whether they were the best deals or not. But I think, assuming Alvarez is signed, Neal Huntington and the management team's first season has followed a well thought out plan and been an unqualified success. Congrats Neal. It's a good day to be a Pirate fan for a change.